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	<title>Comments on: A Narrow View</title>
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	<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/</link>
	<description>Frank commentary from a retired call girl</description>
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		<title>By: Kelly James</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 21:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it&#039;ll get there in full eventually :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;ll get there in full eventually <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kelly James</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kelly James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 21:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LOL, as was I.  By the time my 18th bday rolled around I&#039;d had damn well enough of that shit for the rest of my life and to this day I hate being told what to do :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, as was I.  By the time my 18th bday rolled around I&#8217;d had damn well enough of that shit for the rest of my life and to this day I hate being told what to do <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t Believe the Hype &#124; A.K. Smith</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don&#8217;t Believe the Hype &#124; A.K. Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 17:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] number also coincides fairly well with a study that Maggie McNeill over at the Honest Courtesan has cited a number of times.  A study done in New Zealand, where [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] number also coincides fairly well with a study that Maggie McNeill over at the Honest Courtesan has cited a number of times.  A study done in New Zealand, where [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie McNeill</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7121</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maggie McNeill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 16:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Complete equality isn’t compatible with democracy, but it is agreeable to totalitarianism.  After all, the only way to ensure the equality of the slothful, the inept and the immoral is to suppress everyone else.&quot;  -  Iain Benson]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Complete equality isn’t compatible with democracy, but it is agreeable to totalitarianism.  After all, the only way to ensure the equality of the slothful, the inept and the immoral is to suppress everyone else.&#8221;  &#8211;  Iain Benson</p>
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		<title>By: Gorbachev</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7110</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gorbachev]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 10:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Laura,

The reason there wasn&#039;t equality before is that there&#039;s no equality between people. No two people are the same, and no one is &quot;equal&quot; to any other.

Like other social primates - chimpanzees, gorillas, rhesus macaques - humans organize themselves into hierarchies.

These can be based on age, sex, social status from birth, innate qualities like size, strength, ability to find food, ability to steal it from others, tool-using ability, ability to learn new things, etc.

Between men and women, very obviously we evolved different social roles. Male primates are generally larger and more powerful : this can&#039;t be an accident. They&#039;re competing with each other for access to females. Genetic evidence shows that more females than males contributed to our genetic past: it means many males never make it in the mating game. Others steal the females (beat, kill, rob, rape, sneak, avoid getting killed)

So women and men were never equal.

What I suspect is that we had complementary roles. We moved between them, but by and large, most female humans did some things and most males did others; some crossed over and there was overlap.

Men are better at spatial tasks and math. That&#039;s not sexism: you can see it in the stats. Women are much chattier and have far superior linguistic abilities.

These are innate tendencies. There are good female accountants and very good male writers; but look at fiction: Almost the entire audience is female. The publishing industries of every country know it.

There are great male language experts. But as a rule, there are strong differences (as well as obvious similarities) between the sexes.

So obviously, we were &quot;equal&quot; in a general sense of both being important for humanity. But we were different: we had different roles.

What those roles were probably depended on when and where we were. We&#039;re a very flexible species.  No strong men around? Women aren&#039;t useless; some are quite strong. Have to hunt? Some women will be good at it, though not as many as men; still respectable.

Etc.

SO &quot;Equality&quot;:

Remember, nature doesn&#039;t care about &quot;equality&quot;. It doesn&#039;t give a damn.

We evolved to reproduce. Anything else is irrelevant to our biology. Nature never cared about &quot;fair&quot;. It engineered for breeding success - and nothing more.


You want to see what&#039;s not fair, ...  look into the world of insects. The horrors of parasitic insects will dispel any illusions you have about &quot;fair&quot; or &quot;equal&quot; in nature.

One fly attacks ants - injecting its eggs into the ants. The larva burrows its way through the ant to the head; there, after 2 weeks of the ant appearing to be normal, it causes the ant&#039;s body to fall apart (a chemical) and then eats the contents of the head; it uses the head as a shell, then pops it open after pupating and then goes on to attack other ants.

It only attacks fire ants.

Then there are the parasitic wasps: They paralyze spiders, then lay an egg on it. The spider lives for days or weeks. But it&#039;s eaten alive by the wasp&#039;s larva. It&#039;s gruesome.

There are so many tales of horror, ...

In some fish, the male is tiny. It attaches itself to the female, becoming part of her body. It loses its head - literally. It gets absorbed. It provides sperm.


Is it fair?

Whatever. Fair is irrelevant. Equality is irrelevant.

If WE want equality, it&#039;s clear we have to go some distance to defy nature - not that much; we&#039;re not fish.

But we do.

And some things - well, just don&#039;t expect men and women to achieve real absolute equality, ever.

The same way you can&#039;t expect any two people to achieve equality.

Life isn&#039;t about fair.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Laura,</p>
<p>The reason there wasn&#8217;t equality before is that there&#8217;s no equality between people. No two people are the same, and no one is &#8220;equal&#8221; to any other.</p>
<p>Like other social primates &#8211; chimpanzees, gorillas, rhesus macaques &#8211; humans organize themselves into hierarchies.</p>
<p>These can be based on age, sex, social status from birth, innate qualities like size, strength, ability to find food, ability to steal it from others, tool-using ability, ability to learn new things, etc.</p>
<p>Between men and women, very obviously we evolved different social roles. Male primates are generally larger and more powerful : this can&#8217;t be an accident. They&#8217;re competing with each other for access to females. Genetic evidence shows that more females than males contributed to our genetic past: it means many males never make it in the mating game. Others steal the females (beat, kill, rob, rape, sneak, avoid getting killed)</p>
<p>So women and men were never equal.</p>
<p>What I suspect is that we had complementary roles. We moved between them, but by and large, most female humans did some things and most males did others; some crossed over and there was overlap.</p>
<p>Men are better at spatial tasks and math. That&#8217;s not sexism: you can see it in the stats. Women are much chattier and have far superior linguistic abilities.</p>
<p>These are innate tendencies. There are good female accountants and very good male writers; but look at fiction: Almost the entire audience is female. The publishing industries of every country know it.</p>
<p>There are great male language experts. But as a rule, there are strong differences (as well as obvious similarities) between the sexes.</p>
<p>So obviously, we were &#8220;equal&#8221; in a general sense of both being important for humanity. But we were different: we had different roles.</p>
<p>What those roles were probably depended on when and where we were. We&#8217;re a very flexible species.  No strong men around? Women aren&#8217;t useless; some are quite strong. Have to hunt? Some women will be good at it, though not as many as men; still respectable.</p>
<p>Etc.</p>
<p>SO &#8220;Equality&#8221;:</p>
<p>Remember, nature doesn&#8217;t care about &#8220;equality&#8221;. It doesn&#8217;t give a damn.</p>
<p>We evolved to reproduce. Anything else is irrelevant to our biology. Nature never cared about &#8220;fair&#8221;. It engineered for breeding success &#8211; and nothing more.</p>
<p>You want to see what&#8217;s not fair, &#8230;  look into the world of insects. The horrors of parasitic insects will dispel any illusions you have about &#8220;fair&#8221; or &#8220;equal&#8221; in nature.</p>
<p>One fly attacks ants &#8211; injecting its eggs into the ants. The larva burrows its way through the ant to the head; there, after 2 weeks of the ant appearing to be normal, it causes the ant&#8217;s body to fall apart (a chemical) and then eats the contents of the head; it uses the head as a shell, then pops it open after pupating and then goes on to attack other ants.</p>
<p>It only attacks fire ants.</p>
<p>Then there are the parasitic wasps: They paralyze spiders, then lay an egg on it. The spider lives for days or weeks. But it&#8217;s eaten alive by the wasp&#8217;s larva. It&#8217;s gruesome.</p>
<p>There are so many tales of horror, &#8230;</p>
<p>In some fish, the male is tiny. It attaches itself to the female, becoming part of her body. It loses its head &#8211; literally. It gets absorbed. It provides sperm.</p>
<p>Is it fair?</p>
<p>Whatever. Fair is irrelevant. Equality is irrelevant.</p>
<p>If WE want equality, it&#8217;s clear we have to go some distance to defy nature &#8211; not that much; we&#8217;re not fish.</p>
<p>But we do.</p>
<p>And some things &#8211; well, just don&#8217;t expect men and women to achieve real absolute equality, ever.</p>
<p>The same way you can&#8217;t expect any two people to achieve equality.</p>
<p>Life isn&#8217;t about fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 09:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fortunately, there&#039;s groups of Muslim and Christian women (and some men) working to CHANGE the mentality that men have to run the women.  They&#039;ve made progress.  If anyone wants me to post links to these groups, I&#039;ll be glad to.  In Christianity this has been a BIG problem since day 1.  Too many have twisted/taken out of context the Scriptures about how married couples are supposed to live, etc.  I&#039;ve heard some male preachers speak out against this also.  Unfortunately, there&#039;s also preachers who do the opposite along with men not in the clergy.  I read a book years ago about how the women of the Old Testament had it better in a lot of ways compared to other groups of women at the time.  But, I personally struggle with all of that, even though those women did have it better.  Why did there need to be any inequality to begin with in ANY group?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately, there&#8217;s groups of Muslim and Christian women (and some men) working to CHANGE the mentality that men have to run the women.  They&#8217;ve made progress.  If anyone wants me to post links to these groups, I&#8217;ll be glad to.  In Christianity this has been a BIG problem since day 1.  Too many have twisted/taken out of context the Scriptures about how married couples are supposed to live, etc.  I&#8217;ve heard some male preachers speak out against this also.  Unfortunately, there&#8217;s also preachers who do the opposite along with men not in the clergy.  I read a book years ago about how the women of the Old Testament had it better in a lot of ways compared to other groups of women at the time.  But, I personally struggle with all of that, even though those women did have it better.  Why did there need to be any inequality to begin with in ANY group?</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 18:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The above link is for a piece about the &quot;slippery slope&quot; argument which exceptions can be a part of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above link is for a piece about the &#8220;slippery slope&#8221; argument which exceptions can be a part of.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7076</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 18:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.garlikov.com/philosophy/slope.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.garlikov.com/philosophy/slope.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.garlikov.com/philosophy/slope.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7075</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 18:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wasn&#039;t the 1st 1 to bring up the royal wedding in this thread.  I figured since it was already brought up it was OK to mention what I did.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t the 1st 1 to bring up the royal wedding in this thread.  I figured since it was already brought up it was OK to mention what I did.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/a-narrow-view/#comment-7074</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 17:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/?p=3382#comment-7074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some in the world don&#039;t want any part of the mindset that all sex women have is some kind of prostitution.  I&#039;m 1 of them and it&#039;ll never change with me.  I 1st saw this mentality as a teenager and resolved to never be part of it.  I believe everything should be as FREE as possible including sex.  I know these views aren&#039;t popular  (which to me is part of its appeal) but there&#039;s room for all kinds of views in the world.  Not once did anyone physically stop me from practicing my form of &quot;free love&quot; OR order me to not do it.  Not once have I ordered anyone to not be a prostitute or stopped anyone from doing so.  To me that&#039;s 1 proof that mindsets aren&#039;t the &quot;threat&quot; they&#039;re sometimes made out to be.  Thanks for listening.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some in the world don&#8217;t want any part of the mindset that all sex women have is some kind of prostitution.  I&#8217;m 1 of them and it&#8217;ll never change with me.  I 1st saw this mentality as a teenager and resolved to never be part of it.  I believe everything should be as FREE as possible including sex.  I know these views aren&#8217;t popular  (which to me is part of its appeal) but there&#8217;s room for all kinds of views in the world.  Not once did anyone physically stop me from practicing my form of &#8220;free love&#8221; OR order me to not do it.  Not once have I ordered anyone to not be a prostitute or stopped anyone from doing so.  To me that&#8217;s 1 proof that mindsets aren&#8217;t the &#8220;threat&#8221; they&#8217;re sometimes made out to be.  Thanks for listening.</p>
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